New Species Idea: Deer

[Whammy]

Devised by Fossil Stone and Lucky Rabbit:

Oct 9, 2013 8:47:15 GMT -6 @sonofjafar said:

Politics: Unlike most of Equestria, Deer Tribes vote for their main leader, called the Duer Meilseoir. The Duer Meilseoir picks a council of advisors called Elowen and together they make all the important decisions to made in the tribe. If the Duer Meilseoir dies before the next election the Elowen vote for one of their own to take up the position.

The Duer Meilseoir faces reelection every two years. His opponent for the title is a random volunteer among the tribe. If the current Duer Meilseoir loses, the new one chooses a completely new Elowen and the cycle of power continues.

The Duer Meilseoir is unopposed, he can continue for another 2 terms depending on whether he gets opposed in-between terms. If no deer volunteers at the end of the second term, the council picks two members to go up for the vote. If more than one volunteer is found, the volunteers draw twigs and whoever has the longest twig goes up against the Duer Meilseoir in the election.

Culture: Deer praise the elements of nature to the highest degree. They believe all things in nature are connected in a great balance that, if disturbed, could destroy the universe. They do not use modern day technology, relying on basic hand tools for most of their needs.

Due to their praise of nature, they have a strict code on how to treat animals and plants. When ever a deer cuts done a tree or eats a plant, they have to plant a new one in it's place. As for animals, the code says to treat any pets as if they were actual family members.

Gwydion (Magic): The one magical ability that all Deer have is the ability to talk to animals. Other than that, only certain Deer have magical capabilities. When they do, they are born with one of four marks on their chest, representing the four big elements of nature. When a deer uses magic, their eyes glow a different color depending on what magic they can use.

Fire = Red
Water = Blue
Earth = Green
Air = Yellow

- This symbol means that a Deer has Fire Magic, which means they can summon and control fire.

- This symbol means tat a Deer has Air Magic, which means they can summon and control wind.

 - This symbol means a Deer has Water Magic, which means they can summon and control bodies of water.

- This symbol means a deer has Earth Magic, which means they can summon and control rocks and plants.


Geography: To keep hidden from modern day civilization, Deer tribes are scatter across the forests of Equestria. They reside in brushes and thickets found deep in these forests. There is even a tribe of Deer currently presiding in Everfree Forest, unbeknownst to the citizens of Ponyville.

Relations-
Deer have an ancient enemy in Diamond Dogs. They do not usually socialize wuth the three basic pony species outside of Nightmare Night or Hearth's Warmimg Eve, due to similar Deer holidays happening at the same time. The Deer have a deep alliance with the Buffalo tribes. All other species in Equestria are respected, but visited on a yearly or regular basis.

[Vinyl Scratch]

As the potential creator of Buffalo culture I'd like to say that I think that deer would only have alliances with certain tribes, other tribes they'd never meet if they stayed inside or even near the forest. Strongheart's tribe probably only passes near forests and I don't think their culture calls for making treaties with those they don't know very well.

Also, the elemental magic seems like it could get out of hand if that's what each of them specializes in instead of a talent. I think a standard should be set for how that works, cuz right now it's really vague...and something about their antlers should be in culture. They're deer, antlers seem like they'd be a big deal to me.

Finally, if they don't really communicate with ponies, I'm curious to what should suddenly change that makes them more common. Other than the visits at the end, is something going on?....cool though!!!

....are they based on elves from something?

[Deleted]

As I stated while this was in the proto-stages, I still find it strange to give another species a power that is essentially Fluttershy's specialty. The talking to animals bit. It essentially makes a species out of one of the things that make her unique. So, when it comes to this board's demographics, I can easily lose relevance. Suddenly we have a shy dear and my FS schtick is totally taken.

EDIT: I also have some reservations with the norse iconography when we already have another species that uses the norse culture. Couldn't other symbols be used to keep both more unique? And I realize the two are closely related species, but if we're saying they're a different culture, then we're saying they're a different culture.

[Deleted]

As the resident Diamond Dog, I'd like to ask why Deer hate them. Diamond Dogs would likely live in a completely different regions so the two species would rarely interact, and I don't really think they make much impact on the environment above ground besides making holes to the surface. Not only that, but since Deer probably don't have many gems Diamond Dogs would have no reason to steal from them, so that couldn't be a reason why they dislike each other either.

Do they dislike each other because its supposed to be a reference to the rivalry between Elves and Dwarves in fiction? If so, then I highly disapprove. The two races shouldn't be mortal enemies because they bear some similarities to two similar, but still completely unrelated to this canon races in fiction.

[Deleted]

Since I help come up with these ideas, I'll answer your questions. For Vinyl, I'm willing to let go of the Buffalo alliance and, to answer the question of what Deer are based on, I was going for a very Celtic feel. For Fluttershy, I always thought that Fluttershy just understood what animals are thinking, so it was a mistaken assumption on my part. As for Tech, the idea of Deer hating Diamond Dogs was supposed to be a send up to a scene from Bambi, but you'd still have a point either way. Most of the non-pony relations were my attempt to deepen the species. I personally don't watch the show very often, so I might make mistakes like this while making ideas.

Slight edit: I thought those symbols for their magic were Celtic, got a little confused there.

[Deleted]

Okay epic post will be epic. Most of what was posted is all Lucky, I mostly gave some critiques on some stuff I noticed. I'm going to take some of the comments and try to offer up suggestion or comment of my own.

I'd like to say that I think that deer would only have alliances with certain tribes, other tribes they'd never meet if they stayed inside or even near the forest.

Good point! While forests and deserts can border each other it doesn't seem like either race would go too far into the other's territory. Only those living along the border would have contact with each other. There probably aren't any deep alliances, however there could still be some good relations between a few tribes and settlements.

Also, the elemental magic seems like it could get out of hand if that's what each of them specializes in instead of a talent. I think a standard should be set for how that works, cuz right now it's really vague

I believe Lucky imagined their magic to be along the lines of bending from Avatar the Last Airbender. More manipulation of an element than magic.

Finally, if they don't really communicate with ponies, I'm curious to what should suddenly change that makes them more common.

The idea I have is that they're mostly self sufficient and live in their own forest communities. They may disagree with how ponies control the weather as much as they do, but they have access to metal. The MLP universe has a wide spectrum of technology being common, but I'm going to assume basic tools and the like are okay. Every now and then some deer can go into a town to do some trading with the ponies there for supplies they can't make on their own. Much like how Zecora would come into town.

....are they based on elves from something?

The previous version had them living IN trees like... in an ewok village. I don't know. Them living on the ground is my idea.

I still find it strange to give another species a power that is essentially Fluttershy's specialty. The talking to animals bit. It essentially makes a species out of one of the things that make her unique. So, when it comes to this board's demographics, I can easily lose relevance. Suddenly we have a shy dear and my FS schtick is totally taken.

I'll agree with you that not all deer should be able to hold conversations with the entire animal kingdom. I have to point out though that Fluttershy's special talent is probably a rare one, but not unique to her entirely. Twilight Sparkle's special talent is magic. Yes she was hoof-picked by Celestia to be a student of hers, but there is at least one entire school dedicated to teaching magic to Unicorns. Applejack's special talent involves her apple farming, look at her entire family. Rainbow Dash is an incredibly athletic pony who wishes to join a team of incredibly athletic ponies, and Rarity is a fashionista that has taught her gem finding spell to Twilight and wishes she has the talent and recognition of others in her field.

Its been shown there are veterinarians in Equestria, there may be a couple of zoos, and definitely some animal trainers. Having a way with animals is probably a rare cutie mark. That said an entire race shouldn't have the ability to converse with all animals, and also have access to something else. Also Granny Smith could ask Bees for honey, and they would give her the good stuff. I have an alternate suggestion which I'll post below in my thoughts.

I also have some reservations with the norse iconography when we already have another species that uses the norse culture. Couldn't other symbols be used to keep both more unique? And I realize the two are closely related species, but if we're saying they're a different culture, then we're saying they're a different culture.

I would like the idea of deer being Caribou cousins, or at least closely related to them either in actual relation or through politics.

As the resident Diamond Dog, I'd like to ask why Deer hate them.

I'm going to offer up what I believe should be a simple explanation to it. Diamond Dogs dig tunnels, and to make tunnels safer you need supports. The wider the hole you make, the more the ceiling has supports. Diamond Dogs also appear to have thumbs, that gives them access to tool usage. My thought is that the Diamond Dogs go above ground, or sink trees, to collect the lumber they need and don't replace what they take or clean up after their mess. They're taking from nature without giving back to it, and do so whenever they need to. This goes against the Deer who try to minimize the footprint they leave on the world. This upsets the Deer greatly, but the Diamond Dogs may not notice or care. There is also all the excess rock from their prolific tunneling. It has to go somewhere. Maybe they just dump it above ground? If you ever light a fire you need fuel as well.

I've been told support beams weren't shown in the episode, but I'm going to bring in common sense on this one. Even if solid stone can be handwaved as being safe, when you go near the surface there's going to be loose stone and dirt, and that won't just float in mid air. Any permanent tunnel should be made safe. Tunnels near the top could collapse and create sinkholes, or be a potentially blocked air vent.

Of course this would only really happen in areas where the two meet, though some Deer settlements may hear about it from other Deer.

Diamond Dogs would likely live in a completely different regions

What is stopping gems from existing under, near, or around forests? Wood is a common building material for structures, tools (You have thumbs use them!), and use as fuel as fire. Wood is a good material to have at hand for lots of reasons.

Deer probably don't have many gems

Probably not, but they may still treasure what few they have for their appearance. They may also have some cool pieces of amber as well. With how close to the surface Rarity seems to find gems, they don't seem like they'd be that hard to come across on accident and would be easier to sift for once you knew where they were.

The two races shouldn't be mortal enemies

Odds are it's probably one sided for the most part. with Diamond Dogs spending much of their time in their tunnels they may find the Deer mainly an annoyance. Diamond Dogs can dig and fill holes pretty fast. They could just peace out of an altercation if they wanted, or force the offending Deer to go into the tunnels where it's suddenly at a disadvantage. Unless the Deer can create floating islands to live on, the Diamond Dogs are at a severe tactical advantage against them. For the most part the dislike is probably one sided. At least that's how it seems to me.

My Thoughts

Its 5:30 am at this moment. Forgive me if this idea is rough.

My first thought is there are two types of deer, both considered special. You have the animal speakers, and the plant speakers. Animal Speakers can communicate with one specific type of critter. If you are He-who-talks-to-Bees you can talk with bees and probably wasps as well, but Listens-to-frogs-gossip has no idea what bees say. Fluttershy is much more versatile with her talent than these Deer individually. Fluttershy retains her awesomness.

Nature magic Deer have access to a certain type of magic. Possibly still defined by an Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Plant, type elemental system. Whatever they do is themed under the element they have access too, and while it may seem really good at first, it's also really limited since they don't have the general straight magic that Unicorns have access to. I'm even saying limiting their telekinesis to what their domain is, not just general lifting stuff around. The price of specialization is the lack of utility. While Unicorns like Trixie or Twilight Sparkle may be outclassed in a specific task, one-on-one they have access to ton of other things one Deer might not be able to do. A water-based Deer couldn't out firework Trixie, no access to fire. On the flip side a plant-based Deer could probably affect the growth and manipulation of plants where as Twilight Sparkle struggled incredibly hard to try to reverse the aging of a flower.

With it being a themed magic instead of manipulation it allows from some wiggle room and encourages some thinking outside the box. For example let's say there's a large fire, oh no! Naturally Water and Earth Deer come to mind to put it out, but there's none around! Air-based Deer can maybe manipulate the air so it creates a vacuum, or at least restrict the oxygen from getting to the fire, or keep the smoke from spreading. Robbed of oxygen the fire stops. A fire-based deer instead of throwing fire, pulls it away from whatever is burning, or keeps it from spreading. A particularly clever and strong one manipulate all the heat in the area away, causing the sudden cold to cripple the flames. Plant-based Deer may get plants to lean away from the flames to try and keep the fire from spreading, or have trees and the like bend down and start throwing dirt onto the fire to put it out.

Common thoughts would have probably been air would have fanned the flames or caused a massive gust to put it out which may have caused other damage. Fire would have added to the flames, and a plant deer would have just provided more fuel to it. A magic-based Unicorn would have had any number of spells to try and put out the fire, and any Unicorn would have standard telekinesis to help move stuff like water hoses/buckets, or move stuff away from the fire.

To any veteran of tabletop RPGs this would essentially make Deer specialist sorcerers and magic-based Unicorns potentially Wizards. By the numbers and and cheese included that Sorcerer will outside the Wizard in the one specific thing it does, but can't offer much outside of what it's useful in. The Wizard on the other hand can potentially be useful in every situation.

I like that the eyes of a Deer glow instead of their antlers. It's different and sets them apart from Unicorns. With this expanded idea instead of runes there could be some obvious-cutie mark-esque symbol that appears on their body. It could be the forehead, chest, shoulders, or back, just someplace other than where a pony's cutie mark resides. It should be a simple and obvious symbol.

"You have a flame on you, you can use fire magic can't you?"
"That looks like a tree design on you, no wonder your flower garden always blooms so nicely!"
"You have some bear claws on you. You must be a baker! Nah I'm kidding, I've seen you talking to some bears before to find out where they get their honey."

Though I can understand that sometimes there may be some confusion, but not every cutie mark is obvious as to what it's for. Just look at Cheerilee or Fluttershy. Because when I think of three flowers it's immediately obvious that means teaching, and a cluster of butterflies makes you the beastmaster. Yeah, I know the beastmaster movies, and I went there. For those of you who don't know The Beastmaster was a series of movies, and eventually a television series, about a man in a mystical world who could speak to and understand animals. For those of you who didn't need to be told, you get three cookies.

"That's a nice swirl design on your coat. Is it a gust of wind, or flowing water?"

If you can't tell, just ask. It can make for a nice ice breaker to used to get to know someone new!

These are my collective thoughts and comments. Tech is the last person I saw who had posted in this thread when I began writing this post and it is now nearly 7am.

[Deleted]

Thanks for covering me there, Fossil. Shall we give these changes to the admin and make this work.

[Deleted]

'Allo everyone, as the resident busybody who has to poke her nose into everything, I have a few things to add. They aint much in the way of qualifications, but they're what I got XD

Deer- I'm cool with them being magical and all, but I think it should be earth, nature and plant based, not elemental. Abilities like being able to speak to the spirits of trees and understand them, make plants come into fruit and flower, purify tainted water, cure poisons magically, use Vine Whip, It's super Effective, Create earth tremors, be able to find rare and precious magical plants, and so on. If we must have deer speaking with animals, then I think deer with talent in that area should only be able to speak to one animal. not one species of animal or one kind of animal- one animal. Like a spirit guide or a familiar.

On a related-but-not-really note, Mori, don't sell Flutterbug short. She's far more than just shy and animal-talking pone. She's kind, has the stare, and is adorably, heartrendingly cute, for starters. But I do kind of understand your dilemma and sympathize.

Oct 11, 2013 1:05:43 GMT -6 @billymays said:

As the resident Diamond Dog, I'd like to ask why Deer hate them. Diamond Dogs would likely live in a completely different regions so the two species would rarely interact, and I don't really think they make much impact on the environment above ground besides making holes to the surface. Not only that, but since Deer probably don't have many gems Diamond Dogs would have no reason to steal from them, so that couldn't be a reason why they dislike each other either.

Do they dislike each other because its supposed to be a reference to the rivalry between Elves and Dwarves in fiction? If so, then I highly disapprove. The two races shouldn't be mortal enemies because they bear some similarities to two similar, but still completely unrelated to this canon races in fiction.

I would respond to this by asking, quite plainly, when it was established as fact that one species actually needed a good, justifiable reason to hate another. Prejudice has never relied on reason and logic. In fact, it thrives only in places where both are absent. And I would like to point out, just for the record, that no one has ever claimed diamond dogs to be bastions of intelligence. There's no reason they wouldn't hate the deer right back as self-righteous, tree-huggin hippies. Just because you hadn't planned on it doesn't mean it cant be added to Diamond Dog culture, too.

Your argument that they inhabit different areas doesn't hold water, either.  Miners go where Gems, metals, and minerals are. That stuff doesnt grow back. If they remain in one territory, it'll run out of resources. If that means mining under forests, so be it. Its also been noted, BY YOU, that Diamond Dogs are, when they have the chance, meat eaters. Deer could justify a hatred simply by virtue of the vegan agenda and their own love for their furry friends.

But the very best reason Deer would hate dogs is plain and simple. Mining is horribly destructive to the environment. That dug-up earth and rock has to go somewhere, and the somewhere it goes is out of the hole and into the open. Where it gets washed by rain into waterways, fouling the water and often  killing the plants around it. Then there's nothing to eat OR drink. And you might say that the scenery shown in the diamond dog episode doesn't really resemble a forest, but there's a little fact you're conveniently overlooking.

It probably didn't look that way when the Diamond Dogs first moved in, either. It DOES, however, very much resemble a place that has been carelessly mined for a time.

[Deleted]

I can live with all that. After all, you and Whammy are the bossed around here. So, as a final question on my part, can this still work for everybody. I don't want to give an idea if its gonna stir up trouble.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2013 8:50:21 GMT -6 @coffeefox said:

On a related-but-not-really note, Mori, don't sell Flutterbug short. She's far more than just shy and animal-talking pone. She's kind, has the stare, and is adorably, heartrendingly cute, for starters. But I do kind of understand your dilemma and sympathize.

Naturally I don't think she just boils down to those two qualities, I've been playing her for a long time. I was trying to prove a point without writing an essay lol. But her all encompassing love for animals and the ability to communicate with them was, up until this point, the only part of her not easily able to flooded by OCs (the stare isn't something that comes up in RP much). It's completely different to say that there's an entire school of one type of unicorn/one family that specializes in something than to say an entire race can do it by default. An entire race is a much larger thing. Doing it by default means "it's not special at all." That's what prompted me to write about it.


That being said, I totally feel like my concerns were addressed through later postings.

[Deleted]

Ok, I have have a few things to say about what Coffee said.

Oct 11, 2013 8:50:21 GMT -6 @coffeefox said:

I would respond to this by asking, quite plainly, when it was established as fact that one species actually needed a good, justifiable reason to hate another. Prejudice has never relied on reason and logic. In fact, it thrives only in places where both are absent. And I would like to point out, just for the record, that no one has ever claimed diamond dogs to be bastions of intelligence. There's no reason they wouldn't hate the deer right back as self-righteous, tree-huggin hippies. Just because you hadn't planned on it doesn't mean it cant be added to Diamond Dog culture, too.

It doesn't seem like the Deer would be the kind of people who would be very prejudice for no real reason. But, I will say that you are right that Diamond Dogs could easily hate the Deer simply because of prejudice. However, I would like to say that your last sentence upset me. I wasn't going off of any personal headcanon, this is just my take on whether or not the two races would dislike each other. I'm not saying this because I want the Diamond Dogs to be precisely how I imagined them to be.

Oct 11, 2013 8:50:21 GMT -6 @coffeefox said:

Your argument that they inhabit different areas doesn't hold water, either.  Miners go where Gems, metals, and minerals are. That stuff doesnt grow back. If they remain in one territory, it'll run out of resources. If that means mining under forests, so be it. Its also been noted, BY YOU, that Diamond Dogs are, when they have the chance, meat eaters. Deer could justify a hatred simply by virtue of the vegan agenda and their own love for their furry friends.

Of course gems could be anywhere, but would Diamond Dogs want to dig at such a place? Its very likely Diamond Dogs would stick to rocky and mountainous regions simply because they're good places to look for gems. If they ran out of gems, they'd probably just find a similar place to dig at. I'll get as to why they'd likely stick to such places down below. Not to mention the fact that the only two known canon places Diamond Dogs live at are both such regions.

As for Diamond Dogs eating meat, the Deer's close ties to nature could just as easily make them a race that would judge Diamond Dogs the least for them being meat eaters. After all, they'd understand that carnivores are just a part of nature, and a necessary part at that.

Oct 11, 2013 8:50:21 GMT -6 @coffeefox said:

But the very best reason Deer would hate dogs is plain and simple. Mining is horribly destructive to the environment. That dug-up earth and rock has to go somewhere, and the somewhere it goes is out of the hole and into the open. Where it gets washed by rain into waterways, fouling the water and often  killing the plants around it. Then there's nothing to eat OR drink. And you might say that the scenery shown in the diamond dog episode doesn't really resemble a forest, but there's a little fact you're conveniently overlooking.

It probably didn't look that way when the Diamond Dogs first moved in, either. It DOES, however, very much resemble a place that has been carelessly mined for a time.

Again you definitely have a point with the fact that mining can be destructive to the environment. If Deer did know about their mining habits, they probably wouldn't be too happy. But I wasn't "conveniently overlooking" anything. What your saying about that region is just as much of an implication as me saying that it looked like that to begin with. Personally I think it was like that from the start, but I digress.

To bring up Clutch's mention of them needing wood earlier, I think the Diamond Dogs specifically live in regions where the earth is rock hard specifically so that their tunnels don't cave-in (Also I'm pretty sure the only tunnels they had near the surface were the ones that went to the surface. All their other tunnels seems to be deeper underground). This would explain why there were no wooden supports for the tunnel in the show. That area's soil was probably too hard for that much vegetation to grow anyway. Not to mention, mountainous regions would probably have a higher amount of gems than other areas, even if they could be found nearly anywhere else.

But again, that's all speculation on my part. What you or I said could be true, but there isn't definite proof that either is.

[Deleted]

After sleeping on things I've come up with one thing.

Under my idea for their magic you have two types of deer. From those two types you have multiple ways those can go, and even further split off from super specializations. If you were to draw it, then pan out and look at it, the graph could easily look like antlers! There I made antler's look important.

I can suspend disbelief. I dislike doing it so much sometimes. The deeper the tunnel, cave, etc the more weight us pressing down on that ceiling. Deep deep down supports should still be needed. I'm willing to meet halfway and say they should be needed until a certain point.

With a community living underground they'll need ways to circulate the air through either airvents, technology, or sssssssslaaaavveessss /Sombra.jpg. Heat gets trapped underground, and without proper airflow it can get incredibly humid making it an awful, miserable, place to be. Then when you light fires, candles, etc, they need oxygen to burn. Multiple air vents would be able to provide many areas of the network with fresh air to keep it nice and liveable. Since we've seen Diamond Dogs easily take to enslaving a pony, perhaps they can value deer for some of their elemental magic. Fire Deer can burn their magic instead of wood so they dont have to worry about getting fuel above ground, or smoke. Water Deer can help them find water. Air Deer can air condition the place. Earth Deer can help them mine by moving stone with magic, or hunting specific minerals. Plant Deer can be used to keep plants alive underground which will help recycle the air.

Deer probably wouldn't find it too pleasing to have some members of their society being taken by ugly looking tunnel dwellers. Just another way to make them dislike each other.

[Deleted]

I get it, guys. Some of my ideas don't work. Can I please start saving my Bits and make one of these guys. STOP! STOP IT! STOP ACTING CRITICAL!!!

Note:
This post was made to parody Jontron. No anger truly intended